Hey, I missed most of this, but I think Charlie makes some
excellent points and I thought I'd do one last post on the
subject. I think a lot of crime fiction (as opposed to
mystery fiction) portrays a realistic vision of the world and
part of this is in the use of language. I'm not saying that
language needs to mimic the way people speak in real life,
but I think it should at least reflect it...And I love what
Charlie wrote about how he won't sensor himself. I feel the
same way. If I hear a character talking in a particular way
that's the way I write it. When I do a revision, if something
sticks out or seems awkward I'll cut it, but I won't make a
cut simply because I think a word will offend a reader...In
fact, that's the kind of stuff I always try to keep in.
Cheers! http://www.jasonstarr.com
--- In
rara-avis-l@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Williams
<cs_will@b...> wrote:
> Kevin wrote:
> > On Mar 25, 2005, at 3:25 AM, Charlie
wrote:
> <snip>
> > >
> > > So you've created these fictional people,
and now
> > you're imposing
> > > your own sense of modesty on them. How
true are
> > your characters now?
> > > How real can they be, with that
constraint?
> >
> > Sorry, Charlie, but this is fiction, it's
not
> > "real."
>
> My idea of fiction reflects the real world to
some
> degree. That's the kind of fiction I like,
personally.
> I hear there are other kinds. You can keep
them.
>
> > Real life doesn't have to be believable or full
of
> > great dialogue.
> > Fiction does. If writers wrote the way most
people
> > actually speak,
> > nobody would bother reading.
>
> I never said that writers should write the way
most
> people actually speak. My thrust was that a
writer
> should not have his characters speak the way
he
> himself speaks (hence my words: "imposing your
own
> sense of modesty on them").
>
> > A good writer is always editing himself,
tailoring
> > his work for his or
> > her readers, trying to tell the story he wants
to
> > tell without losing
> > his audience. It's part of the creative
process,
> > this distilling
> > reality and re-presenting it as fiction. A
writer
> > who only writes for
> > himself is almost surely going to get the
audience
> > he desires.
> >
> > And a writer who is always whining "but it
happened
> > in real life" to
> > justify some complete leap in logic or some
excess
> > or another, is
> > probably not going to gather much of an
audience
> > either.
>
> Kevin, what can I say, thanks for the education.
And
> there I was, going along, writing characters
exactly
> as I hear people speak in real life, not
once
> considering that I could employ my own
critical
> judgement on the words I'm writing down.
>
> > > And getting sideways of the issue a bit...
We're
> > crime readers and
> > > writers, right? We read and write about
people who
> > kill, steal,
> > > torture, maim, defraud, assault, rape, jay
walk,
> > etc... Pardon me for
> > > being controversial, but I think those
guys and
> > gals may well indulge
> > > in ripe lingo at times. Bad actions, bad
language
> > - which is more
> > > acceptable? Is "I'll cut your balls off"
more
> > acceptable than "I'll
> > > cut your fucking balls off"?
> >
> > Without knowing anything about the
character
> > speaking, it's hard to
> > tell. But adding "fucking" doesn't add much to
the
> > dialogue in this
> > case, as far as I can see.
>
> Again, my point was that compaints about (or
silent
> aversion to) the use of "fucking" (or whatever)
in
> crime fiction should be put into context:
crime
> fiction is full of bad stuff. How is a bit of
bad
> language a problem?
>
> Not once in my email did I suggest that "fucking"
(or
> whatever) should be spliced into a writer's text
at
> every opportunity. Not once did I advocate swear
words
> for their own sake. I argued that swear words
in
> themselves should not be censored away just
because
> they are swear words.
>
> You know, I don't disagree with anything you say.
But
> you didn't have to take me completely out of
context
> to say it. I can see how much you enjoyed it
though,
> so I guess I don't mind.
>
> > And don't worry about
> > being controversial --
> > you're not.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Charlie Williams.
>
>
> www.charliewilliams.net
>
> Send instant messages to your online
friends
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